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Hart Viges, he fought with the 82nd Airborne Division. After he returned from Iraq, he was granted conscientious objector status.
My name is Hart Viges. I joined the Army right after
September 11th and asked for Airborne, asked for Infantry, ended up
with 82nd Airborne Division, 1st/325 HHC, Battalion Mortars, Hunters in
the Sky, Death from Above, and went in November 2001 and left the Army
in December 2004. I was deployed to Kuwait in February 2003 and
subsequently was part of the invasion in March.
Originally, we were going to jump inside Baghdad airport, but
3rd ID was ahead of schedule, so we drove in and secured this town that
was hitting supply lines, a town called Al Samawa. This was my first
experience with the job that I was trained to do. I was a mortarman,
81-millimeter mortar. We were set up outside the town of Al Samawa in
basically a dump. Flies were so heavy, you couldn’t eat. When the sun
was up, you’d have a—you get a mouth full of flies with your MRE
pudding.
But what I saw there, you know, more so even what I participated
in, you know, hearing the radio calls over for the line companies that
are in trouble, or they spot some people go into a building, so we get
that fire mission, and we destroy the building with our mortars. I set
the timers, I set the rounds, the charges for the mortars. I was part
of that team that sent those rounds downrange.
And, you know, this isn’t army to army, you know. People live in
towns. It’s beyond imagination to think that normal people, civilians,
don’t live in towns. This is upside-down thinking. So I never really
saw the effects of my mortar rounds in the towns. So that just leaves
my imagination open to countless deaths that I don’t know how many
civilians, innocents I’ve killed, helped kill.
Another big piece of weaponry that they used on this little town
of Al Samawa was called a Spectre gunship. It’s a C130 with belt-fed
howitzer cannons, two of those, and some like super-Gatling guns—I
wouldn’t know the proper nomenclature for that. And they would sweep
around Al Samawa, just pounding the city. And this is definitely a
sight to be seen, this airplane. I mean, you—it’s almost—even though
the rounds are coming from up in the sky, it’s almost like the ground
is shaking. And again, over the city, over neighborhoods, Kiowa attack
helicopters with Hellfire missiles, F-18s dropping bombs that would
shake you to the bone, all while I was laying down mortar fire on this
town full of people.—letting down mortar fire on this town full of
people.
And the radio was always—never a good thing came over the radio.
One time they said that—to fire on all taxicabs, because the enemy was
using them for transportation. And in Iraq, any car can be a taxicab.
You just paint it white and orange, and there you have it. And one of
the snipers across the radio replied back, “Excuse me? Did I hear that
right? Fire on all taxicabs?” The lieutenant colonel replied back,
like, “You heard me, trooper. Fire on all taxicabs.” And once that
conversation ended, the town pretty much lit up; all the units that
were in there fired on numerous cars—again, you know, people. Where’s
the real proof? This was my first experience with war that really kind
of set the tone for the rest of the deployment.
Then I went to Fallujah for a couple of weeks, and our Charlie
Company picked a fight there, so we had to skip out. My Fallujah story
is not like other Fallujah stories. I was out in this resort area that
got stripped up, that we took over, and had my weapon thirty meters
away from me, working on my tan in a man-made lake. But hearing the
stories come back from inside town, but—
And then we went to Baghdad and pretty much ran that town into
the ground. You know, there was no real structure there, no police, no
authority except for us. And we took full advantage of that in the
treatment of the people and in just overall viewpoints. I mean, myself,
I never really consider myself a racist person, but everything was
“haji this,” “haji that,” “haji smokes,” “haji burger, “haji house,”
“haji clothes,” “haji rag.” “Haji” is the same as “honky.” It’s the
same thing. I had to catch myself.
And then, with raids, we never went on a raid where we got the
right house, much less the right person. Not once. We were outside of
Baghdad, this water treatment plant, and it seemed like a pretty nice
area, you know, trees, green. But then, as we were leaving, two men
with RPGs run out in front of us in the road, and there’s a lot of
yelling and screaming. And they’re huddled themselves with women and
children that were there. And we’re all screaming, “Drop your weapon!
Drop your weapons!” They had RPGs slung on their backs. And I was
watching my sector on the left. They were on the right. You know, I was
very adamant about watching my sector over there. But I just couldn’t
take it anymore, and I swung my rifle around, had my sight on the dude
in the doorway, RPG on his back, had my sight on his chest. This is
what I’m trained to do. But when I looked at his face, he wasn’t a
bogeyman, he wasn’t the enemy; he was scared and confused, probably the
same expression I had on my face during the same time. He was probably
fed the same BS I was fed to put myself in that situation. But seeing
his face took me back, and I didn’t pull the trigger. He got away.
We get backup with Apache helicopters, Bradley fighting
vehicles, and we go back into this nice little village, asking
questions. And, you know, it’s a pretty good history in Iraq. You know,
if you got beef with your neighbor back in Saddam’s day, you just say,
“Hey, police, he said something bad about Saddam. Why don’t you go get
him?” And they take him, and they torture him. Well, now, here with the
US, we’re asking, “Who are the troublemakers?,” and we hear from the
people in the village that these people are troublemakers over here. So
we go, and myself and another soldier steps off, and we toss the hut.
Well, the only thing I find is a little .22 pistol, not AK-47s, not
RPGs, not pictures of Saddam, not large caches of money. But we end up
taking the two young men, regardless. And I looked at my sergeant, and
I was like, “Sergeant, these aren’t the men that we’re looking for.”
And he told me, “Don’t worry. I’m sure they would have done something
anyways.” And this mother, all the while, is crying in my face, trying
to kiss my feet. And, you know, I can’t speak Arabic. I can speak
human. She was saying, “Please, why are you taking my sons? They have
done nothing wrong.” And that made me feel very powerless. You know,
82nd Airborne Division, Infantry, with Apache helicopters, Bradley
fighting vehicles and armor and my M4—I was powerless. I was powerless
to help her.
And I was very naive back then. I thought that, you know, they
would just take them and find out, yeah, they don’t know anything. But
later I found out people who were detained were—are being detained for
years. Parents don’t even know where their children are.
And the lack of humanity in war, the place where you put
yourself is—when you look at it in back, it’s almost alien. We were
driving down Baghdad one day, and we found a dead body on the side of
the road. So we all pulled over to secure it and wait for MPs or
whatever authorities would come and take care of this dead man here who
was clearly murdered. And my friends jumped off and started taking
pictures with him, you know, big old smiles on their faces, you know.
And they said, “Hey, Viges, you know, you want your picture with this
guy?” And I said no, nut “no” not in the context of that’s really
messed up, because it’s just wrong on an ethical basis, but I said no
because it wasn’t my kill. You shouldn’t take trophies for things you
didn’t kill. I mean, that’s what my mindset is—was back then, because I
wasn’t even upset that this man was really dead. They shouldn’t have
been taking credit for something they didn’t do.
Jason Washburn, served three tours in Iraq from 2003 to 2006 as
a corporal. He took part in the invasion and was deployed in the cities
of Najaf and Haditha.
My name is Jason Washburn. I was a corporal in the United
States Marine Corps, in which I served four years. I did three tours in
Iraq. My first two tours were with the 1st Battalion, 4th Marines
Charlie Company. And my third tour was with 3rd Battalion, 1st Marines
Weapons Company. I was in the initial invasion, and eventually, after
the invasion was done, we settled down in Al Hillah. This was in ‘’03.
From ’04 to ’05, I was in Najaf, and from ’05 to ’06, I was in Haditha.
During the course of my three tours, the rules of engagement
changed a lot. It seemed like every time we turned around we had
different rules of engagement. And they told us the reasons they were
changing them was because it depended on the climate of the area at the
time, what the threat level was deemed to be. And the higher the threat
level was, the more viciously we were permitted and expected to
respond.
And, for example, during the invasion, we were told to use
target identification before engaging with anyone. But if the town or
the city that we were approaching was a known threat, if the unit that
went through the area before we did took a high number of casualties,
we were basically—we were allowed to shoot whatever we wanted. It was
deemed to be a free-fire zone. So we would roll through the town, and
anything that we saw, everything that was saw, we engaged it and opened
fire on everything. And there was really—I mean, there was really no
rule governing the amount of force we were allowed to use on targets
during the invasion.
I remember one woman was walking by, and she was carrying a huge
bag, and she looked like she was heading towards us. So we lit her up
with the Mark 19, which is an automatic grenade launcher. And when the
dust settled, we realized that the bag was only full of groceries. And,
I mean, she had been trying to bring us food, and we blew her to pieces
for it.
After the invasion ended and Bush declared “mission
accomplished,” the rules changed pretty drastically. Instead of
actually firing, we used a lot of, I guess, close combat, just
hand-to-hand-type stuff, just simple hand-to-hand violence to subdue
people. There were a lot of times where we would be out on foot
patrols, and, you know, we were ordered to not allow people to pass
through our patrol formation. And unsuspecting villagers would try to
pass through or cut through the formation, and we would butt-stroke
them, jab them with the muzzle, you know, kick them or whatever, you
know, just get them out of the formation. And one time, there was a guy
on a bicycle with a basket full of groceries, and he tried to, you
know, just roll through. And, you know, we clotheslined him and smashed
up his bicycle. For what? You know, passing through the formation.
And—but this is like what we were expected to do.
And in another instance, we were ordered to guard a fuel
station. At the end of the day, like nothing had happened, and we had
mounted up into our trucks. And right when we were about to take off, a
bunch of people, Iraqi people, rushed to the fuel pumps to try to take
some fuel. And our squad leader called it in. And the response was—over
the radio was “What do you think we want you to do? You know, go F them
up!”—obviously in more colorful, you know, language, but—so we jumped
off the trucks and charged at the Iraqis, and we really beat the hell
out of them and with rifles, fists, feet, everything else that we had
available. You know, so once they had either fled or were broken and
bleeding, you know, unconscious on the ground, we mounted back up in
our trucks and left. We were never told to detain anyone there or, you
know, question anyone—just mess them up, you know.
And most of the innocents that I actually saw get killed were
behind the wheel of a vehicle, usually a taxi driver. I’ve been present
for almost a dozen of those types of people that got killed just
driving. During my third deployment, there was a rule in place where
all Iraqi traffic had to pull off of the road to let military convoys
pass by. If they didn’t comply or somebody got back on the road too
early, they would get shot up. If they approached a checkpoint too fast
or too recklessly, they would get shot up. Also, we were often told to
be on the lookout for vehicle-borne IEDs, improvised explosive devices,
matching the description of every taxi in Iraq. You know, be on the
lookout for a car that has orange panel doors and, you know, front
that’s white, or vice versa. And it’s like every taxi in Iraq,
that’s exactly what it looks like, and those are the cars that we’re
supposed to be looking out for that could be, you know, VBIEDs. And so,
quite a few of those guys got shot up just because their car looked
like what we were told to look out for.
In another instance, it was actually a mayor of a town in our AO
near Haditha that got shot. Our command showed us pictures from the
incident. They had gathered the whole company together, and they were
showing pictures of all of this, you know, what everything looked like,
and pointed out the—that the reason that they did this was because
there was a really nice, tight shot group in the windshield, and he
announced to the company that this is what good Marine shooting looks
like. And that was the mayor of the town. And it was actually my squad
that was, after that, tasked with going to apologize to the family and
pay reparations. But it was kind of like, basically, all we did was go
there and, you know, give them some money and then leave. You know,
“Oh, well” is the way it seemed they wanted us to apologize to them. It
was really a joke.
Something else we were actually encouraged to do, almost with a
wink and a nudge, was to carry drop weapons or, by my third tour, drop
shovels. What that basically is, is we would carry these weapons or
shovels with us, because in case we accidentally did shoot a civilian,
we could just toss the weapon on the body and make them look like they
were an insurgent. Or, you know, like my friend here were saying, we
were told by my third tour that if they were carrying a shovel or—you
know, and a heavy bag, if they were digging anywhere, especially near
roads, that we could shoot them. And so, we actually carried these
tools and weapons in our vehicles in case we accidentally shot an
innocent civilian, and we could just toss it on them and be like,
“Well, he was digging. I was within the rules of engagement.” And this
was commonly encouraged, but only behind closed doors. It wasn’t
obviously a public announcement that they would make. But, yeah, it was
pretty common.
Jason Lemieux, Former Marine sergeant who served three tours in
Iraq from 2003 to 2006. He currently heads the Los Angeles chapter of
Iraq Veterans Against the War.
My name is Jason Wayne Lemieux, and I’m a member of Iraq
Veterans Against the War. I served four years and ten months in the
United States Marine Corps Infantry and was honorably discharged with
the rank of sergeant. During my time in the Marine Corps, I served
three deployments to Iraq, including the invasion. And in case any
inquiring minds want to know, I served four years and ten months
because I voluntarily extended my enlistment contract by ten months to
redeploy with my unit for the third tour. My first tour started in
January 2003 and ended in September of that year. My second tour was
from February to September of 2004. And my last tour was from September
2005 to March 30, 2006.
Proper rules of engagement serve an important strategic purpose,
which is to legitimize military force. By projecting an image of
restraint and professionalism, militaries seek to reinforce the idea
that they’re protecting local residents, rather than oppressing them.
Not only do these rules undermine support for any local opposition,
they also deflect accusations of occupation and oppression from foreign
countries and, in some cases, the people of the country the military is
supposedly serving. Martin van Creveld, who is an Israeli military
historian, even asserted some years ago that the British had not yet
been driven from Northern Ireland, because they were taking more
casualties than the Irish were. The US, on the other hand, has not
chosen to use rules of engagement in the same way in Iraq. The rules of
engagement have been broadly defined and loosely enforced to protect US
service members at the expense of the Iraqi people, and anyone who
tells you different is either a liar or a fool.
During the invasion of Iraq, during the push north to Baghdad,
the rules of engagement given to me were gradually reduced to the point
of nonexistence, similar to the cases that you’ve already heard. When
we first crossed the Kuwait-Iraq border at Az Zubayr in March 2003, we
were operating under Geneva Convention guidelines and were authorized
to shoot anyone wearing a military uniform, except for medical and
religious personnel, unless they had surrendered. By the time we got to
Baghdad, however, I was explicitly told by my chain of command that I
could shoot anyone who came closer to me than I felt comfortable with
if that person did not immediately move when I ordered them to do so,
keeping in mind I don’t speak Arabic. The general attitude that I got
from my chain of command was “better them than us.” And the guidance
that we were given reinforced that attitude across the ranks. It was an
attitude that I watched intensify greatly throughout the course of my
three tours.
I remember in January of 2004 attending the formation where we
were given what was going to be our mission for the second deployment,
and I was sitting there like a good Marine with my pen and paper ready
to write down those carefully chosen, thoughtful words that would
justify my existence in Iraq for the next seven months. And my
commander told me that our mission was—and I quote—“to kill those who
need to be killed and save those who need to be saved.” And that was
it. And with those words, he pretty much set the tone for the
deployment.
At the start of that second deployment, our standing rules of
engagement were that someone had to be displaying hostile intent and
committing a hostile act before deadly force could be used. I won’t get
into the absurdity of asking one to discern what is going on in the
mind of another individual, except to say that it was the individual
Marine’s job to determine what is hostile intent and a hostile action.
However, during the April offensive of 2004 in which attacks
erupted all over Anbar province, my unit was involved in a two-day
firefight. Shortly after the firefight was underway, the same commander
who had given us the mission issued an order that everyone wearing a
black dishdasha and a red headscarf was automatically displaying
hostile intent and a hostile action and was to be shot. An hour or two
later, he gave another order, this time that everyone on the streets
was considered an enemy combatant. I can remember one instance after
the order was given that afternoon when we came around a corner, and an
unarmed Iraqi man stepped out of a doorway. I remember the Marine
directly in front of me raising his rifle and aiming at the unarmed
man, and then I think just for some psychological reason my brain
blocked out the actual shots, because the next thing I remember is
stepping over the dead man’s body to clear the room that he came out
of. I remember that it was a storage room, and it was full of some
Arabic brand of Iraq—or some Arabic brand of cheesy puffs, like
Cheetos. There weren’t any weapons in the area, except for ours. The
commander told us a couple of weeks later that over a hundred “enemy,”
quote-unquote, had been killed, and to the best of my knowledge that
number includes all of the people who were shot for simply walking down
the street in their own city.
After the firefight was over, the standing rules of engagement
for my unit were changed so that Marines didn’t need to identify a
hostile action anymore in order to use deadly force; they just had to
identify hostile intent. The rules also explicitly stated that carrying
a shovel, standing on a rooftop while speaking on a cell phone or
holding binoculars, or being out after curfew were automatically
considered hostile intent, and we were authorized to use deadly force.
And I can only guess how many innocent people died during my tour
because of those orders.
On my third tour, the rules of engagement were stricter, but
they really only existed so that the command could say there were rules
of engagement that were being followed. In reality, my officers
explicitly told me and my fellow Marines that if we felt threatened by
an Iraqi’s presence, we should just shoot them, and the officers would,
quote-unquote, “take care of us.”
By this time, many of the Marines who were on their second or
third tour had suffered such serious psychological trauma, having
watched friends die and lose limbs, that because of these experiences,
they were moved to shoot people who, in my opinion, were clearly
noncombatants. There was one incident when a roadside bomb exploded,
and a few minutes later, I watched a Marine start shooting at cars that
were driving down the street hundreds of meters away and in the
opposite direction from where the IED had exploded. We were too far
away to identify who was in the cars, and they didn’t pose any threat
to us. And for all I could tell, as I was standing about twenty meters
away from the Marine and about 300 meters from the cars, they were just
passing motorists. It was long enough after and far enough away from
the explosion that the people in the cars might not have even known
that anything was going on or that anything had even happened, but the
Marine was shooting at them anyway.
This Marine had had his best friend get killed on our last
deployment and had also related to me a story about the two-day
firefight that I mentioned earlier, when he watched the commander, who
had given us the order to shoot anyone on the street, shoot two old
ladies that were walking and carrying vegetables. He said that the
commander had told him to shoot the woman, and when he refused, because
they were carrying vegetables, the commander shot them. So, when this
Marine started shooting at people in cars that nobody else felt were
threatening, he was only following the example that his commander had
already set.
I don’t have anywhere near enough time to tell you every related
experience that I had in Iraq, but in general, the rules of engagement
changed frequently, contradicted themselves, and when they were
restrictive, they were either loosely enforced, or escalations of
force, as shootings of civilians were known, were not reported because
Marines did not want to send their brothers in arms to prison, when all
they were trying to do was protect themselves in a situation they had
been forced into, where there was a constant ambiguous and deadly
threat, and any citizen of the country that they were supposedly
liberating could have been wearing an explosive vest.
With no way to identify their attackers and no clear mission
worth dying for, Marines viewed the rules of engagement as either a
joke or a technicality to be worked around so that they could bring
each other home alive. Not only are the misuse of rules of engagement
in Iraq indicative of supreme strategic incompetence, they are also a
moral disgrace. The people who have set them should be ashamed of
ourselves, and they are just one of the many reasons why the troops
should be withdrawn immediately from Iraq.
Geoff Millard, Spent nine years in the National Guard and served
thirteen months in Iraq at the rank of sergeant. He heads the
Washington, D.C. chapter of Iraq Veterans Against the War.
My name is Geoff Millard. I’m the Washington, D.C. chapter
president of Iraq Veterans Against the War. I spent nine years in the
New York Army National Guard. Thirteen months of that was spent as a
sergeant in Operation Iraqi Freedom, stationed at Forward Operating
Base Speicher the majority of that time. At the end of my tour of duty
and the end of my military career, I went UA for nine months. They
mailed me my honorable discharge in May of 2007.
It’s no surprise for anyone who’s been in the military since
September 11th, especially not for those of us who have been deployed
since September 11th, that the word “haji” is used to dehumanize people
not just of Iraq and Afghanistan, but anyone there who is not us. We
bought haji DVDs at the haji shops from the hajis that worked there.
The KBR employees that did our laundry that were from Pakistan became
hajis. The KBR employees who worked inside of our chow halls became
hajis. Everyone that was not a US force became a haji, not a person,
not a name, but a haji. I used to have conversations with members of my
unit, and I would ask them why they use that term, especially members
of my unit who are people of color. It used to shock me that they
would. And their answers were very similar, almost always, and that
was, “They’re just hajis. Who cares?”
And that came from ranks as low as mine, sergeant, all the way
up to lieutenant colonel in my unit. The highest-ranking officer that I
ever heard use these words was the highest-ranking officer during my
deployment in Iraq: General Casey. During a briefing that my unit, the
42nd Infantry Division Rear Operations Center at FOB Speicher, gave to
General Casey, I heard him refer to the Iraqi people as hajis. I have
heard several generals, including the 42nd Infantry Division Commander,
General Taluto, and my own general that I worked for, Brigadier General
Sullivan, use these terms in reference to the Iraqi people. These
things start at the top, not at the bottom.
I have one story that I want to share with you. One of the most
horrifying experiences of my tour that still stays with me was during a
briefing that I gave. It was actually in the early summer of 2005. For
those who have deployed to Iraq or Afghanistan, we know that a year
becomes a month, a month becomes a day, and a day becomes a second, a
second that repeats over and over and over again, not just for your
tour, but the rest of your life. So I wish I could name the exact date,
but unfortunately that day has become a second that has repeated and
repeated and repeated.
But on a day in the early summer of 2005 in the area of
operation of the 42nd Infantry Division, there was a traffic control
point shooting. Traffic control point shootings are rather common in
Iraq; they happen on a near or daily basis. What happened was, a
vehicle was driving very quickly towards a traffic control point. A
young machine gunner made the split-second decision that that vehicle
was a threat, and in less than a minute put 200 rounds from his
.50-caliber machinegun into that vehicle. That day, he killed a mother,
a father and two children. The boy was age four, and the daughter was
age three.
I was in the briefing that evening when it was briefed to the
general. And after the officer in charge briefed it to the general in a
very calm manner, Colonel Rochelle of the 42nd Infantry Division,
DISCOM Commander, turned in his chair to the entire division-level
staff, and he said—and I quote—“If these [expletive] hajis learned to
drive, this [expletive] wouldn’t happen." I looked around the TOC at
the other officers, at the other enlisted men, mostly higher enlisted.
As a sergeant, I think I was the lowest-ranking person in that room.
And I didn’t see one dissenting body language, one disagreeing head
nod. Everyone was in agreeance that it’s true, if these F-ing hajis
learned to drive, this S wouldn’t happen. I couldn’t believe it, but it
was true. That stayed with me the rest of my tour.
I looked around every time that word “haji” was used, and I
thought about that soldier who will carry that with him for the rest of
his life, and I thought about the four Iraqis whose bloodline was ended
on that day. And Colonel Rochelle could not think of any of that, but
only his own racism and dehumanization that has started at the
commander-in-chief of this war and worked its way down the entire chain
of command.
I would like to thank my fellow panelists and everyone who has
testified and offered testimony that will not be heard publicly for
Winter Soldier: Iraq and Afghanistan—Eyewitness Accounts of the
Occupation. It has been the utmost honor, more honor than I ever gained
from putting on a uniform, to sit up here with the greatest patriots of
American history. Thank you.
Domingo Rosas,
Former sergeant who served in Iraq with the 3rd Armored Cavalry Regiment from April 2003 to April 2004.
My name is Domingo Rosas. I was a sergeant. I was
deployed to Iraq with the 3rd Armored Cavalry Division—or 3rd Armored
Cavalry Regiment, excuse me, from April 2003 to 2004. I am a combat
veteran.
I was stationed in the Al Anbar presence on the western edge on
the Syrian border. We occupied a local train station there in an area
called Al Qaim and which we called Tiger Base. While at Tiger Base, I
was put in charge of the detainee site, which consisted merely of one
of those shipping containers that we’re all familiar with, at least
most of us, and the shipping container and just a single building
surrounded by barbed wire. I had two soldiers to back me up when I was
handling the detainees. And I was briefed by the sergeant that I
relieved that the men in the shipping container were captured
combatants, and I was to deprive them of sleep. So I had them standing
inside the shipping container facing the walls, no talking. I let them
have blankets, because it was cold, but they were not allowed to sit
down or lay down. Any time they started falling out or dozing off, they
put their heads on the wall, I would be on the outside of the shipping
container, and I’d just smack the shipping container with a pickax
handle, try to wake them up and keep them awake.
The men in the building were noncombatant detainees just being
held for questioning. There were ninety-three men altogether. Using one
of them to translate, I told them that they had a clean slate with me.
If they didn’t give me any trouble, then the next twenty-four hours
will pass calmly. If they did, I told them it was going to be a long
twenty-four hours. And I just prayed that they didn’t give me any
trouble, because I didn’t know what I would have had to do. They even
told me I was a good man while I was in charge of them.
One day, a body bag was dropped off to me. When the soldiers
came to retrieve it the next morning, they just threw it on top of some
junk in the back of a truck, but the rigor mortis had already
set in and it wouldn’t fit down inside the truck on top of the stuff,
so the soldiers started stomping on it. I mean, like really stomping on
it. I couldn’t imagine. You know, I was like, how can you do that?
I also had a former Iraqi general some of you may have heard of
who was taken from my custody. I was told to keep him separated from
the other noncombatants and give him everything he needs. If he asks
for anything, hook him up, you know, take care of him, and don’t harass
them. And I was like, well, I don’t need somebody to tell me to not
harass somebody. He ended up—a soldier came up to me later and ended up
telling me that, you know, hey, he died during questioning during his
interrogation. And I’m thinking to myself, how tough does a question
have to be to kill? I don’t know exactly what went on during his
interrogation, but he was fine when I had him.
Days after he was taken from my custody, I had in my custody his
fourteen-year-old son, a very bright child, spoke four languages. He
was supposed to be taken to his father. I was told that—you know,
loosen his tongue up, get him to talk a little more, you know, just try
to get him to cooperate more. And instead, that boy was being taken to
identify his father’s body. Now, I’m not sure, but it’s possible that
if he wasn’t—that child—if that child was pro-American or just one of
our friends and possible ally of us, I’m pretty sure he wasn’t an ally
of ours anymore.
Sometime later, the detainee site was taken over and rebuilt by
men that we were told to call OGAs, which stood for “other governmental
agency.” However—you know, that’s a pretty vague term. They built—they
built high walls around the detainee center, and I figured, well, yeah,
you know, they’re terrorists, you know? You don’t want them seeing out.
You don’t want them—you know, you want to contain them, deny them like
any kind of possible information that they could use to possibly
escape. And then later on, I realized that it wasn’t just so detainees
couldn’t see out, it was so we couldn’t see in.
One night, I was told to give a message down to the detainee
site. I knocked on the door. And when they opened it, I witnessed one
detainee being kicked around on the ground in the mud, rolled over
again and again. The agent was just kicking him with his foot, just
rolling him over in the mud, pouring water on his face, you know, the
whole waterboarding thing. And another detainee was standing there with
a bag over his head and was forced to carry a huge rock until he just
physically couldn’t do it anymore and just collapsed. That image seared
itself into my mind’s eye, and I can’t forget it. I won’t forget it.
Sorry.
As I wrap this up, I just want to say two things. The longer we
live as a human race, we’re supposed to be getting smarter and wiser
and better. And to the vets that we’re trying to bring home alive,
decades from now, when you’ve got your grandchild sitting on your knee,
bouncing in front of you, just try to remember what we did here today
under the flag, IVAW. Thank you.
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